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Post by curiousgeorge on Jul 29, 2008 16:22:20 GMT
so you don't think there was a possible junior worlds boat for men this year. well the selectors didn't know whether there was or not either. they never even tried a quad after 3/4 of last years coupe quad still being junior and a scratch quad winning ghent easily which arguably wasn't the strongest quad either
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Post by prussian on Jul 29, 2008 17:35:40 GMT
The junior womans 2x if still under age, and still proforming should be sent to world champs next year. the stars of the coupe. As for next years coupe in france, just wait and see how big the team will be, a quarter of the size if lucky,with probably all next years athlete's at the same standard or higher. its all about the money and because this years event was in ireland lots of boats got rowing but wait and see next year, the standard for some reason won't be good enough. send everybody i say.
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Post by lightiechick on Jul 29, 2008 21:26:37 GMT
In an ideal world we would have infinite resources and we would send everyone in the country of any kind of a reasonable standard to the Coupe and worlds. Unfortunately we live in the real world and there are restrictions on funding. As a result we should only be sending crews to the world juniors if they have medal winning potential. The fact that crews can dominate the domestic scene doers not mean that they should automatically be sent to the worlds. Look at the Micks 4+ that dominated two years ago. They went to the worlds and got a real wake up call.
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Post by mhughes on Jul 29, 2008 21:44:28 GMT
I have no view as to whether this year's junior men would have been good enough for the world's. That is a coaching matter and in the end it is a coaching call based on performances.
re Prussian...."Its all about money...." that is an intellectually lazy pronouncement. Do your research and you will find that staying and eating at Vichy in 2009 is significantly cheaper than doing the same in Cork. As flights can be booked well in advance the cheapest fares can be sorted. It nearly cost 3,000 to bus the Irish team around Cork...... yes Cork..... in Vichy these buses will not be required.
70% of the Coupe Cost was feeding, housing and watering..... It cost over 32 euro a day to feed our team per head in Cork. You could dine in huge style for that in France. Four nights in Vichy will cost 260 (marginally more than Cork for accommodation that is beside the course. The team kit will cost nearly the same as 2008.......
You see there is no reason other than performance to send a small team. But of course you don't believe me... your mind is made up.
Personally, I don't mind if the team is even bigger (and who manages the team in 2009 is not up to me). I DO mind if we send a weak team that cannot pull medals. 2008 was a very good year.... 21 events, 16 A-Finals, 8 Medals and unlucky to not have another. Maybe it can be even better, but 50% hit rate on medals is a good deal and if we can repeat that dose consistently, we are going very well. Our previous track record has been good in some years and a little lower in others, but standards must be achieved to justify selection.
Finally, and once again personally, I would NOT like to see a gold at the Coupe for a boat that SHOULD rightfully have been at the World's.
Less of the negative waves.......
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Post by curiousgeorge on Jul 30, 2008 17:17:51 GMT
i think it is important for them to have some sort of trials for junior worlds early in the year or even from the previous years champs to get an idea of who may be in the shake up because as it is its all up in the air and people aren't sure what the story is. if people get selected for the junior worlds it will only be in march or April and they only have a few months to train together so how are they expected to compete against German crews who in some case have been training together for years
i agree with ipdaly........................... 8th in the world isn't half bad
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Post by lightiechick on Jul 30, 2008 18:50:00 GMT
"8th in the world isn't half bad". Perhaps its not. The point I was trying to make is that this is one of the best crews we have produced in a number of years and they could not make the A final. I know there will be the argument "how will we know if we dont send them ?" Unfortunately sending crews to world champs can be an expensive process and unless the prognostics indicate that we are likely to make an A final I dont think we can afford that luxury. There is an enormous gap between Irish junior level and World level. I have heard Harold speak of the fact that many of the Eastern European ethnic groups mature earlier than our juniors. That makes it an uphill task from the start.
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Post by bowboy1 on Jul 30, 2008 19:44:18 GMT
there were trails earlier in the year and the camp in january was held not just for development but to see the stardard of junior rowing in ireland. had there been any individual/crew that stuck out as potential worlds material im sure neasa and the other coaches would of had them training together all year and then sent them to the worlds...money not being an issue! this didnt happen so obviosly the stardard wasnt there. as for next year i feel it will be much the same.
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Post by curiousgeorge on Jul 30, 2008 19:59:32 GMT
there was a camp but i dont think they tried for a junior worlds boat at it. i'm not saying that there was or wasn't a fast enough crew its just they never tried it.. i agree though that money isn't a problem. maybe for beijing but not for any where in europe
conor brown or adam o donohue could be there for a crew next year...............
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Post by bowboy1 on Jul 30, 2008 20:28:15 GMT
they didnt try specifically for a boat but i know for a fact they were looking to see if there was one there.. you have the 3 of them for next year plus the 3 skib lads from homes quad who proved themselves last weekend...and then maybe johnny mitchel another stronge coupe squad that should medal..
maybe with the young lads coming through this year there should be some programme with the aim of sendin a quad/double/waterver to the worlds in 2/3yrs time??.. hopfully the new junior head coach will organise something like this...last years development camp in jan was a step in the right direction but more could be done!
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Post by casabud on Jul 30, 2008 21:43:52 GMT
Say we have 2 or 3 national selection regattas by january, forget the regionals, a waste of time really and have squads picked roughly by then, either worlds coupe etc.,people can still move between each depending on performances. Then as other people said crews in worlds are together years so anybody selected for worlds train solely for that, like our seniors and really can no longer row for there clubs in irish regattas. in this too much of a price to pay for a junior.
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Post by legendrower on Jul 30, 2008 21:46:03 GMT
but browne struggles in crew boats grogan is an excellent sculler but prob not fast enough in the single to go by himself and there is noone else at his stardard for a crew boat(at the moment) i can tell you now alot of people will not be happy with what u are saying bowboy !!!
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Post by scullme on Jul 30, 2008 21:57:37 GMT
they didnt send boats this year to worlds because they took the attitude "if it happens it happens" and where would anyone go with that attitude. They didnt push boats and the junior rowers.
Did anyone else get the feeling they just couldnt be bothered to trial crews earlier in the year and push crews for bigger and better results ??
Almost as though they were happy to settle for crews going to coupe. In saying this it is still an unreal event
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Post by superdacentrower on Jul 30, 2008 22:22:41 GMT
ya i got that feeling but theres no point looking back now wonder how the mens double would have done no gold the first day eh ha ha
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Post by bowboy1 on Jul 30, 2008 23:15:02 GMT
my bad..
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Post by curiousgeorge on Jul 31, 2008 14:16:58 GMT
yeah i dont think they really wanted to send a crew this year. i'd say the mens double could have been in the b final or maybe high c final
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