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Post by middlefour on Jun 8, 2010 18:35:29 GMT
Are Ireland sending any crews to the second World Cup regatta or are they waiting untill the third regatta in Lucerne?
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Post by catchup on Jun 8, 2010 19:34:36 GMT
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Post by junior8s2009 on Jun 12, 2010 18:05:07 GMT
No entries for ireland..
Peter chambers rows the lw single for GB
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gtwdy
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Post by gtwdy on Jun 25, 2010 15:02:41 GMT
Why are there no entries from Ireland?
Also I came across an old article just before McElroy took up this job. In his aims he said
''My aim is Irish athletes on podiums, coached by Irish coaches."
Understandable the 1st bit will take a few years, but how many Irish coaches has he employed?
And what is he doing in terms of developing Irish rowing at the grassroots, in order to have these Irish athletes on podiums?
Can anyone clear this up?
On a club level he seems to be fairly non-existent.
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Post by angrychair on Jun 25, 2010 15:14:18 GMT
Going to try and nip this one right in the bud - one of the successes of the past couple of years has been the Coach Development Programme, Level 1 and Level 2 and for anyone who has been on it they will testify that the current coaching staff have had an input into it along with Pat Mc and Mark Pattison - the regional development camps have been very good also for good club athletes to get out in groups at these camps and row with similar minded / standard people under the eye of the squad coaches and get some level of feedback from them - there was a presentation from Adrian Cassidy at the Blessington one to coaches - re Irish coaches on staff Derek Holland is there and is doing a good job - who knows, with the pregression through Level 1 to hopefully 3 or 4 over the next few years there will be coaches with the qualifications to take on bigger roles - I'm not on the inside but am someone who is going through the process of getting my qualifications and I can only assume the guys employed at the higher level need to be signed off by the Sports Council with their relevant experience AND qualifications - if you open your eyes you'll see that there is alot of work going on in the background, I don't think his role was ever one that was going to be going around knocking on clubs doors asking them individually how they are getting on - thats probably more along the lines of Lisa Haydens new role to a certain extent in going deeper down to the J12's etc - there is more help / education . ground work being done out there than theres ever been as far as I can see
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gtwdy
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Post by gtwdy on Jun 25, 2010 16:54:37 GMT
my eyes are very much open. I am aware DH is on the staff, but he is the only Irish coach. There are better coaches in this country than what they have at the moment. You cant argue with this, if so you have been absent from rowing for the last 20 years. Once again, why didn't he employ Irish coaches. You say that they will be there in the future but why not use them if we have them now.
Also, while my initial questions didn't relate to these coaching programs you brought it up from some reason. While the concept of having them is good, and the people delivering them are top quality, all of this is irrelevant if the people learning aren't. From my experience they seem to do more harm than good. This is because the vast majority were mediocre rowers, with even more mediocre coaches.
it is you and perhaps many more that must wake up, if you think that effective ground work is being done. I was under the impression that the High performance program is separate from the rowing union these days, so your response doesn't address my question. Shouldn't overall development of rowing be the task of the performance director, not just the development of U/23s.
The ground work you are talking of however isn't enough. Why the development officer doesn't go to every school in a 10mile radius around a boat club and bring in 12-14 yos to that club of a physiological profile suited to rowing. It is done in most European countries.
Martin McElroy hasnt justified his position just yet, i suppose how could he if he doesn't be around Irish rowing every day. Yes he had a crew that won gold in 2000, but they won it in Jurgen Groblers system. McElroy has form as a talented coach, not a performance director.
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Post by angrychair on Jun 25, 2010 18:27:47 GMT
Ok - you've tripped yourself up numerous times through your response there gtwdy
From your first paragraph response - how many Irish coaches applied for the jobs when they came up?
I did say that they will be there in the future (hopefully) and this will be after they go through the qualification processes etc etc etc - they are employed basically by the Sports Council from what I can see and they are going to want to see pieces of paper before they sign off on them - how many of the experienced coaches in Ireland had those pieces of paper when they were advertising - some but very few but I can guarantee that there are a hell of alot more out there now after the past year - you might think its only a piece of paper but when someone is signing off on something I can only assume they want all the boxes checked
You also say this has nothing to do with coaching programs - of course it does, unless you don't have a good base of good standard coaches out there spread around the country we'll be going nowhere fast - grand, you can point to previous successes before all of this but that was with a very limited number of dedicated athletes who eventually had to look abroad also for their coaching - start from the bottom up, improve the quality of the coaches out there and thats one of the best tools you can give the grassroots of the sport - granted you will need funds and also a dedicated bunch of people in their respective clubs but I don't think that the aim of the HPD was ever to go around knocking on doors as I said initially - you say most coaches out there were only mediocre coaches with mediocre rowing histories - maybe they are and they may continue to be unless these programs are in place and taken advantage of - its up to each club / coach to embrace these and improve their lot, feed it down to their beginners and build up from the bottom for success in the future - for years we wandered aimlessly on the coaching front to a large extent but now there is a massive sharing of knowledge and experience out there
How do you know that the HPD is not putting in place things in the background? How do you know that the Development Officer is not doing trojan work with regards to her 'Get going....get rowing' program and camps that have been organised for beginners in June and July??
You say there are better coaches here than Adrian and Rob - maybe there are, maybe there aren't - the difference is they applied for the jobs when they went up - I'm not privvy to who applied other than those two obviously seeing they got the jobs but I would actually love to know who else applied and what their experience and qualifications were - I really don't understand the points to your argument above bar some sort of grudge against the HPD possibly as that what seems to be coming across
The HPD is the 'High Performance Director' and unless I'm mistaken he is ultimately responsible for the performance of our high performance / world level crews - that what he was hired to do I assume - they perform he gets the plaudits, they don't perform he ultimately has to answer for that
I'll repeat again, I'm not on the inside, I'm someone who's going through the development plan that has been put in place on behalf of my club and finding it hugely beneficial and hopefully my club will benefit from it in the future
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gtwdy
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Post by gtwdy on Jun 25, 2010 20:42:12 GMT
Thats you perspective, and I have my own. Fortunate more broader than yours.
I do know around 5 Irish coaches with international athletes to their name applied for the job.
I do know we dont have any high performance/world level crews in this country at the moment, so he SHOULD be hands on in developing clubs. No disrespect to the rowers of course. Im sure they will do well in the next few years if not sooner hopefully.
And I do know you are one of many people in this country that is not aware of the standard that is needed to win a world championship medal or indeed an Olympic medal.
My point is what Rowing Ireland is doing to achieve success is fairly weak and limited and they need to step up their game. Indeed they may have been doing ''trojan'' work, but perhaps a different approach is needed. Sadly you don't see, this given you don't understand my points above. And rather than make an effort to understand you make it out that I have a grudge against McElroy. Your loss. When Harald Jarling left, hes final statement was that his biggest obstacle was that of peoples lack of vision and willing to change. I see you are one of these people. Lets see how your rowers get on.
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Post by hurleronditch on Jun 25, 2010 22:05:18 GMT
Wow! Chip on shoulder time!
From the sidelines gtwdy's comments regarding another contributer are at best demeaning and at worst insulting.
VThere are better coaches in this country than what they have at the moment. You cant argue with this, if so you have been absent from rowing for the last 20 years.
Well.....many would argue with that. From all that we hear there is very good work being done.
From my experience they seem to do more harm than good. This is because the vast majority were mediocre rowers, with even more mediocre coaches.
...and your experience is.....what, exactly?
As for what makes a coach....not all top class athletes make good coaches, nor is a mediocre athletic career a bar on becoming a good coach. Indeed, some of the most respected coaches were very average athletes.
Thats you perspective, and I have my own. Fortunate more broader than yours.
Subjective opinion.....
I do know around 5 Irish coaches with international athletes to their name applied for the job.
your point being....?
And I do know you are one of many people in this country that is not aware of the standard that is needed to win a world championship medal or indeed an Olympic medal.
Personal attack.
I take it you have the experience and expertise necessary to lecture others on the subject?
When Harald Jarling left, hes final statement was that his biggest obstacle was that of peoples lack of vision and willing to change. I see you are one of these people. Lets see how your rowers get on.
That the same Harald that decimated the Irish programme?
Ask the Belgians how their programme is progressing today.
Having read the postings one wonders if there is another motive.
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Post by casabud on Jun 25, 2010 23:35:29 GMT
Mcelroy has came in and we have probably the worst ever irish entry level at international regattas in a long time, maybe we don't have the athletes at the moment but at least other head coaches entered some crews and were seen around the place now and then, even yarling was seen. Anyhow its good to take the big money for no results
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Post by attentiongo on Jun 26, 2010 15:34:00 GMT
gtwdy your queries were answered and most of your points made redundant by the obviously well informed, and more positive contributions from angrychair.
casabud according to rowingireland.com there are 9 Irish entries for Lucerne... That seems to be a decent and appropriate number of entries?
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Post by angrychair on Jun 27, 2010 0:16:21 GMT
And I do know you are one of many people in this country that is not aware of the standard that is needed to win a world championship medal or indeed an Olympic medal. Fortunately or unfortunately whichever way you look at it I know only too well the level of time / commitment / dedication / talent that is required to get to this level.... |
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Post by blisteringalong on Jun 28, 2010 17:58:29 GMT
Can we get back on the subject please?? You're all talkingm shit!
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Post by sculler1 on Jul 1, 2010 8:30:09 GMT
Lucerne draw up. Bigger Irish entry.
LW1x - Siobhan McCrohan
LM1x - Cathal Moynihan. No Peter Cambers
LM2- - Peter Hanily and Anto English.
LM4X - Niall Kenny, Michael Maher, Mark O'Donovan and Justin Ryan.
M2- - Sean Jacob and Cormac Folan
W1x - Sanita Puspure
LW2x - Claire Lambe and Sarah Dolan
Good to see such a large entry and good luck to all those competing
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Post by ahempacher on Jul 1, 2010 9:51:18 GMT
Good entry, hope they have a good regatta, would prob have swapped maher and hanily, but hopefully it'll go well. Great to see LW2x going out. A-Final might be a big ask in Lucerne, but after their performance in Bled, they'll have a taste for it.
Best of luck to all.
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