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Post by waughboy on Jul 20, 2010 11:48:49 GMT
This reminds me of that womens senior quad in 08 Carlow/Garda/Micks/Skibb composite i think it was, eually as crazy as this
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Post by sidewinder on Jul 20, 2010 15:07:20 GMT
The UL 8 had 5 current students in it. Always amazes how when a club puts up a good showing there's always plenty of people around to put them down.
I'm not a member UL by the way.
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Post by Oldreliable on Jul 21, 2010 13:24:37 GMT
I wouldn't regard the 7 Club Composite in the womens senior 8's as a club putting up a good showing. When you take the best female scullers from a list of different clubs to make up a crew - it's blatant pot hunting and it doesn't do any good for the sport.
We may as well take all the best scullers from the different clubs in Galway, the same in Islandbridge and Belfast and instead of a "Club Championship" why not have an inter-provincial race.
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Post by socrates on Jul 21, 2010 17:04:17 GMT
Look at the situation in Trinity now. They have 8 senior girls who I believe are all staying around next year. So what do they do? Either train their asses off for a year to race senior 8s knowing that they are going to get beaten by a bunch of international scullers who are out pothunting. Or join in with the composite game, put together an 'Islandbridge RC' eight and leave on the bank 4 or 5 trinity people who have been training all year.
Either way it is damaging to senior rowing. The argument given by the powers that be is that it gives small clubs a chance to win a senior championship (or at least a share of one). But since when is the senior championship there to be shared around?? It should be a reward for the club with the strongest sqaud of rowers, not for the club that has sneaked a senior international sculler into the boat
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Post by catchup on Jul 21, 2010 20:18:48 GMT
I'm not disagreeing with your view Soctates but its the clubs that vote in the rules and its the clubs that can change the rules, not the "powers that be".
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Post by reckthem on Jul 21, 2010 21:07:56 GMT
Just looking at the rules for the championships 3.3 Eligibility All the Championships shall be contested annually and are open only to the following: (a) Clubs Affiliated to Rowing Ireland for at least four months.
Surely a composite is not a club. I agree with oldreliable and soctates that a club crew trains their asses off all year, and then finds they're up against a boat loaded with internationals or rowers that are not far international standard.
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Post by catchup on Jul 22, 2010 9:08:08 GMT
2.26 Composite Crews Composite crews are permissible in all Senior, Lightweight, Masters and Adaptive events. They are not permissible in any other class. A Club may have members in no more than one composite crew in the same event. This does not restrict the number of single club crews that may also be entered in the same event.
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Post by mhughes on Jul 22, 2010 9:26:59 GMT
Re. last few....
In general I support the thrust of your comments (please note I do not write in any offical capacity here).
I was present at the AGM where Composites were proposed (my club voted against). I felt that it was a backward step and I have had no cause to dissent from that view ever since.
However, I believe that too many clubs would baulk at getting rid of this. and that a complete overturning of it would not achieve enough support.
May I suggest a form of modification to the rule:
6 rowers from an 8 must come from one club, and 3 from a 4, none from a 2-/2X.
I would also suggest that registration date for the Championships should be moved to the end of the Head Season.
If these two regulations were modified in tandem I think it would be fairer to all athletes. It would allow for decisions to be made earlier and even if coalescing was to take place then they would have to do so within a club environment at a much earlier date. (which gives the club something also).
Everybody else could see the situation coming and make some plans accordingly, hence it would be fairer all round.
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Post by The Little Lebowski on Jul 22, 2010 9:45:16 GMT
MHughes, I do agree with an overhaul with the composite rule to make things fairer, but 6 in an eight and three in a four might be overkill. It prevents two fours coming together to form an eight and getting a second race and likewise for pairs.
My own opinion is that at least one club should make up at least half the crew. In addition to that, I also think that crews should have to qualify to enter the champs. This would not be a performance based qualification rather a participation based qualification.
So what about this: Each club (or group of clubs for grades where composites are allowed) must compete at a minimum of two Grand League regattas (or alternatively one G/L and two other non G/L events) in the class of boat and a a grade equal to (or above) that they intend to compete at for the current year. Eg competing at Cork and Skib in Senior fours will allow you to race the inter fours champs. The club qualifies, not the rowers, so substitutes can be used.
This has a few advantages - Primarily it promotes the domestic scene and the various regattas around the country -> more participation. It makes a more interesting season as there is no crews hanging in the wings playing their cards close to their chests to some degree. It will resolve the composite issue by allowing composites, but only composites that are willing to effectively compete and train as a unit.
Would this be something clubs might agree to. I'm not saying it's the best solution, but with some thought it could be a useful way of going forward.
Maybe it could be put to the DEC.
Opinions??
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Post by waughboy on Jul 22, 2010 11:02:17 GMT
In fairness a few of them composites were completely unnecesary e.g
-the winning snr womens 8-obviously!!
-the ucd-commercial-oc comp. ucd have an inter 8 to choose 4 others from for gods sake, ok tha addition of jaco is grand being ucd alumni and all but adding in the 3 commercial lads was a bit of an insult to their inter 8
-the nep-galway 4, martin walshe? how on earth did he snub his own club and end up with galway? that one kinda made me laugh. galways certainly have enough athletes to make a competative 4, so too neptune so why did he end up with them?
-the galways-nep-lady liz 8-not sure if it actually raced i wasent there but again same reason as above galway had enough for a competative snr8 so too neptune
-the commercial-skibb 4- maybe that peuget guy may hve been out im not sure but if he wasent i didnt see the logic the in subbing in coakly for him, they were doing very well for themselves all season with that set crew and all of a sudden they change? ill remove this one if they guy was out ill or anything.
RE: lebowski. Yes a good idea in theory but for that to fully work the geographical spread of GL regattas isint exactly fair to the north perhaps the west, youd havta make athlone a GL regatta and perhaps get another one in castlewellen
And to people who worry about the state of womens senior rowing after the international 8 i say simply look at the womens senior 4 result, a practically full junior crew won it
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Post by Oldreliable on Jul 22, 2010 11:40:24 GMT
As long as the small boat championships remains in September and the composite rule doesn't change we may look forward to jam packed finals of composites in the future. Unless they move the 4x Championship and put it in with the big boats where it belongs.
Out of a matter of interest, if you are registered for two clubs can you race for one club in the big boat championship and the other in the small boat championship?
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Post by socrates on Jul 22, 2010 11:49:42 GMT
I agree. Unless some kind of rules are put in place, it may start to get out of control in womens senior 8s. Everyone will start to feel that they can only win with composites - i am aware of a club (which has never done a composite before) that has already started to talk about which clubs they might join up with next year for champs.
And how can womens rowing be strengthened if there is no incentive to put together proper club crews.
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Post by mhughes on Jul 22, 2010 12:25:57 GMT
Re. oldreliable,
I believe ther is a rule that you can only compete for one club at a regatta/head, so you have to choose.
Re. Socrates.... I completely agree.
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Post by reckthem on Jul 22, 2010 13:07:22 GMT
I agree with Lebowski, that composites and clubs intending on, competing at the championships must compete at one of the grand league regattas in the event(s) they intent on competing in at the National Championships, this would then make them eligible to compete at the championships in the same event(s). One thing it would do; if nothing else is let all clubs and club crews know what they will be up against in their chosen senior event at the champs.
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Post by Oldreliable on Jul 22, 2010 13:59:04 GMT
M Hughes - I am aware that there is a rule that you can only compete for 1 club at any one regatta or head.
Is the Championships in September seperate from the Championships last weekend? for example - If I was in the UL 8 that won the Inter 8's last Friday can I now go and row in a Castleconnell Intermediate 2- in September?
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