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Post by rowrowyourboat on Jul 22, 2010 14:17:56 GMT
I do agree with the points that have been made about composites and it does seem unfair on crews who train together all year to be beat by a composite. It also must be unfair to other clubs members who may be left out of a crew due to a composite. The rules maybe change and plenty of you seem to good ideas to make things a bit more fair.
But in relation to this senoir womens 8, which has started all this discussion. I would like to point out that the few girls that i know in the boat train very hard just as hard as any memeber of any crew, they also do the majority of their training without the support of a crew, as the majority are single scullers. It is not as if these girls don't train their asses of all year and then expect to win, they work bloody hard.
There is also the point that it is very hard for any rower to miss the opportunity to win an Irish championship, (it is certainly something i would love, but will probably never do) i would say that many of the crew would not have taken part in the champs only for the WS8. They are athletes and athletes train to compete and hopefully win!
With these points in mind i would like to congradulate the WS8 for winning they done very well and they deserve it for their hard work all through the year.
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Post by mhughes on Jul 22, 2010 14:36:18 GMT
Re. rowrowyourboat..... I would think that we all agree with congratulating the athletes concerned... they did nothing wrong and they did train their ....... off.
Re. Oldreliable's question.
The answer your queston is yes you can re-register for another club in 2010 and compete in the Sept. gig for a different club.... the rule on deadlines for this re-registration means there is not much time to be getting on twith that. The Committeee debated this matter a while back and came to the conclusion that Sept is a separate event.
My suggestion of early April for registration would eliminate this little anomaly
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Post by catchup on Jul 22, 2010 14:56:11 GMT
Oldreliable...to the best of my knowledge there is no reason why you can't compete for another club at the Sept Championships. It is a seperate regatta.
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Post by waughboy on Jul 22, 2010 14:59:01 GMT
what about statuses? Say some of those ul lads want to row an iner pair in september? are they allowed or have they already been bumped up to senior status?
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Post by The Little Lebowski on Jul 22, 2010 15:10:37 GMT
Waughboy
From the RI rules: 2.21.3 Intermediate I Confined to individuals who have accumulated less than six status wins at Regattas in any of the following classes:- Senior, Intermediate I or II and Lightweight. An individual qualified as Intermediate I may compete at this rade until the 31st December of the year in which he/she reaches 6 status wins (or equivalent).
Or equivalent I assume to mean win a championship. So yes they would be Intermediate to the end of the calender year. Likewise some of the guys in other boat that would have broken status this year but didn't win a championship are elegible to compete Int 2- in sept. Could be a good race too.
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Post by catchup on Jul 22, 2010 15:12:35 GMT
Interesting point. I would say they are eligible to compete at the same level. You only get bumped up for the following year.
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Post by waughboy on Jul 22, 2010 15:29:29 GMT
Thanks for clearing that up, much appreciated and yes it should be an interesting race in september.
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Post by mhughes on Jul 22, 2010 15:55:18 GMT
Re. Intermediate winners in July ..... Rule 2.21.3 says you cannot row intermediate if you have won a championship.
However sculling and rowing are separate for grading purposes.
The business of qualifying until the end of the year applies to someone reaching their 6th win at the grade (inter)
This is a separate clause from the one regading a championship victory.
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ratzy
New Member
Posts: 4
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Post by ratzy on Jul 22, 2010 21:07:29 GMT
As long as a 2 part championship program is continued we are going to see more and more composites. I agree that it's not ideal to have rainbow composites winning races but why should these people be deprived of racing when it is what they train for all year. Lebowski makes the point of half the crew being from one club, good in theory, but if you take any one club from that womens composite how many would have had 4 girls at a senior standard???
I'm not against a 2 part championships at all but i think July has already highlighted some concerns. The bigger clubs will win more and the smaller clubs that have been kept going by picking up the odd championship here and there will start getting very disheartened which in the long term is not good at all for participation in our sport.
As i said i am not against the split champs and i don't think we can say if the change has been successful or not until September but one thing I am sure off is that when we review the Championship winners table at the end of September it will show a smaller number of clubs winning a larger number of championships.
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Post by willowysway on Jul 22, 2010 23:05:51 GMT
2 sides to the argument, obv to be competitive at senior level you have to be pushing for international standard as proven in the mens sen 4 and sen8. However they are a club crew and for them all to be on the same page with regard level of training and sacrifice is commendable. The womens sen8 win on the other hand... its good to see that standard of crew in womens rowing but to just throw together a crew because the individuals have been training their asses off for their championship in September shouldnt be seen as the thing to do. I dont see the same pride in the win, surely it would mean so much more to someone who has rowed and erged their ass of for every other member in that crew, whether they like them or not. who were those girls happy for when they won? themselves for getting an irish senior pot (on top of international rowing careers, some of whom even rowed internationally this yr) their clubs? who may have had other rowers left on the sidelines, the other girls in the boat? u cant truly experience joy for someone else unless u really know them and u know what they’ve been through to get there, thats just not possible in a 7club comp crew. If the champs stay split up I think there should be a change in rules to have a max no. of clubs allowed in the crew. Im not sure but i would assume its a good bit easier to throw 8 scullers in an 8 than to break up an 8 in july to try and win pots in singles, pairs and doubles.
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Post by prussian on Jul 22, 2010 23:39:51 GMT
we can all talk on this board as much as we like, but unless we lobby or tell our clubs that we disagree with this blatant pot hunting and at the next rule change meeting we get a motion to ban composites or limit say max 3 crews in any composite, obviously pairs excluded that this will never change. So get on to your club committees or shut up, me personally am against such large composites.
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Post by rtfm on Jul 23, 2010 1:09:30 GMT
While complementing the athletes who were good enough to put a scratch crew together, within the rules, and win the Women's senior pot last week, I have reservations about composite crews.
I have had those reservations long prior to 2010 season.
Back when I were a lad, the only pots available were (in modern parlance) Junior-8, Novice-8, Inter-8, Senior-8 and Senior Scull. (There may have been a Four amongst them). All big boats. There was an argument for allowing composites in aid of the small club who may have only one or two competitive rowers, but that is no longer a valid argument.
The small club with one or two competitive rowers can now compete in : Junior 1x, 2x, 2-, IV..... Nov: 1x, IV..... Inter 1x, 2-, IV Snr: 1x, 2x, 2-, IV.....
The reason has ceased to exist.
Of course, if the clubs (not the "union") insist in voting for a continuence of that rule, then it will continue, and we'll be here another day replaying the same arguments!
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Post by socrates on Jul 23, 2010 11:34:00 GMT
Am I right that it is only every 4 years that the rules can be changed? So we have another 2 years before there is a chance to change the composite rule?
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Post by sculler1 on Jul 24, 2010 2:33:32 GMT
Composite crews are not as common here as they are in most countries e.g Belgium , Italy etc. In most countries composite crews start as low j14. Personally i think most of you are being unfair. I row for a small club and unfortunately we dont have an 8. I would have loved to have raced in an 8 instead of spending the last month paddling. At the end of the day they one and you did not so stop Bi**hing and get over it.
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Post by waughboy on Jul 24, 2010 23:00:40 GMT
Composite crews are not as common here as they are in most countries e.g Belgium , Italy etc. In most countries composite crews start as low j14. Personally i think most of you are being unfair. I row for a small club and unfortunately we dont have an 8. I would have loved to have raced in an 8 instead of spending the last month paddling. At the end of the day they one and you did not so stop Bi**hing and get over it. j14? I wouldnt say so, ive no results from the countries youve mentioned bar england and over there the junior composites you speak of are coupe/worlds crews racing for practice. Composites are grand and well but the womens senior 8, pretty much the best senior womens scullers, is a step too far i feel. I dont know any, knor have i anything against em and there great athletes but that 8 was a bit ridiculous, i wont call it pot hunting because after all....rowing is erm...pot hunting? Unfair? no not quite.
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